**EDIT:**
Made a patch for episode 8 subs (Ritsu doesn't reveal Mob's name when getting held up anymore)
Download the patch [here](https://files.catbox.moe/zdb79b.7z) or grab the subfile to mux in yourself [here](https://files.catbox.moe/ms7rwh.ass)
| Tracks | |
| :-------------------- |:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Video | [Legion] BD 1080p x264 Hi10p |
| Audio Track 1 | Japanese 2.0 Opus |
| Audio Track 2 | English 5.1 Opus |
| Subtitle Track 1 | Full Subtitles [OZR] (eng) |
| Subtitle Track 2 | Signs & Songs (eng) (forced) |
**Notes from Legion:**
> My own encode from the JPBD. Filtering: rescale, denoise, deband, and adaptive grain. OP was native 1080p so I excluded it from rescaling. It also suffers from significant banding and blocking compared to the rest of the video so I scenefiltered a strong deband for it.
**Notes from me:**
> Mux with edited [0x539](https://nyaa.iss.one/view/1108315) subs used as base and Legion's video.
> Most instances of "Nii-san" where "Brother" was being used in the third person were replaced with "Shige" to be consistent with SaltSplash's S2 release.
> Additionally, a missing sign was added back, multiple grammatical errors were fixed, a couple of minor sign adjustments from aro were included, and dialogue was restyled to match SaltSplash's S2 styling.
> Subs were added to the NCED, and the credited OP was losslessly cut out. USBD audio was sample-accurately synced and then encoded to Opus.
> If you really prefer FLAC for some reason, [here](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ZdQuEIVXatwuW-X5D9_ktRCw_UrAzyCE?usp=sharing) is a link to the lossless audio. The 24 bit FLAC files were downconverted to 16 bit and dithered.
Legion made baby steps from qAAC to Opus. Hopefully they will learn how to run and use FLAC.
Opus is always barking with a Napoleon complex. "Listen to me, I sound like lossless but I have smaller deciballs!"
FLAC doesn't have to justify anything. Just hangs back comfortably with huge deciballs. Most popular and loved without even trying.
@pip3 I understand why you love Opus. It's the red-headed stepchild of audio formats. Like attracts like.
PS: No offense to genuine redheads.
Are you really going to be sweaty about saving a few mb of audio on a bloated encode though? I'd argue 130mb of lossless audio is negligible for 3gb videos. Speaking for myself, I would rather not have audio with quantization noise added from being lossy, even if high bitrate opus is _perceptually_ pretty close & indistinguishable. There's no reason to degrade the audio for minimal space saving (~100mb) unless you were making mini or small encodes. For archive releases, attention to quality should be given to both audio & video.
Downsampling FLAC to 16 bit is another story too. There _are_ some DACs which have high precision chips that can reproduce actual 18-20 bits of information, so doing so does lose this information. It's usually transparent and most people can only reproduce ~14-16 bits, which is why it's seen as acceptable for space saving.
Might as well be saving images in JPEG with compression artifacts instead of PNG then for those amazing storage gains. Heck, let's start doing JPEG encode comparisons.
@Mabby since you've posted specs to support your point, would you still make the same arguments if they looked like this -
@Interruptor/Unoriginal You're an imitator that copies DeathStroke's gimmick. Now you're just copying everyone else with this ABX logic bot nyerdiness. I have no interest in your cucking fetish. It's obviously engraved deeply in *****your***** mind.
Storage technology is growing. The amount of space saved converting to lossy is minuscule.
@Mabby gets it. It makes sense for small and mini encodes. This encode is already bloated. May as well embrace the bloat and have lossless audio. Bloated video with lossy audio is a mismatch. Common sense.
Logic bot nyerds' thoughts are like hardsubs. Not flexible thinkers. FLACebros for life.
@halofan It's the current nyaa culture. Memes and jokes. Aggro chimp-like behavior blended with reptilian logic. The more reptilian logic ones with lesser aggro come off as sassy and catty. It could use more kindness, empathy, and right-brained thinking.
Perhaps, it will mature and is just a culture going through an adolescent phase.
@Mabby All of your comments are just shit spewing out of your mouth right now. Real gangstas know that actions speak louder than words. You would completely fail an ABX test because this "audio degradation" is inaudible and won't make a difference for the viewer. Also, what is your point about JPEG compression? You can literally notice artifacts in that case, but here the difference is imperceivable.
@absinth Freudian slip projected on another from within yourself. I was unaware that you saw herkz as a daddy figure. Someone has daddy issues. Another person's kink is revealed. ꉂ (´∀｀)ʱªʱªʱª
@oZanderr The true gangsta is @Mabby. You wish you were on his level when it comes to analytical skills.
You don't need an ABX test for common sense. What's the point of lossy audio on a bloated encode? Imprisoned by the left brain, flawed logic slaves.
Example of logic bot lossy souls:
@kulot99 You simply missed the ironic value of my shitpost :) Anyway, cope the way you seem to fit the situation the most. Both sides are retarded anyways. You are not going to hear a difference and the only argument to be made is that putting lossy codec next to the video stream that is focused on being the best is contradicting. Unless there is some big hardware cope going in the background.
@absinth It's all good. :D Everyone is half-joking with grains of their truth. Just different angles of perspective.
Yes, contradictory. It's a bipolar release. Opus is great for mini and smaller encodes.
Those that typically use bloated encodes prefer lossless. Those that want smaller file sizes will most likely get a different release, anyhow.
It's like someone trying hard to be liked by everyone. Am I bloated and aiming for the highest quality? Am I lossy aiming to reduce file size? Very few end up liking them because they don't have a solid identity. Know thyself.
> But where’s the ABX
> Real gangstas know that actions speak louder than words. You would completely fail an ABX test because this “audio degradation” is inaudible and won’t make a difference for the viewer.
@Vodes @oZanderr Do you wanna come over? 💪 I hope you aren't ABX comparing in your browser because it isn't flawless and will resample or have distortions. Some browsers even had major regression bugs when it came to audio streaming. Might as well bypass Windows' audio engine altogether and use WASAPI or ASIO exclusive for bit perfect operation to ensure no funny business from Windows APO.
> Also, what is your point about JPEG compression? You can literally notice artifacts in that case, but here the difference is imperceivable.
The point there is you are consciously substituting a format with one that has known flaws due to the nature of quantization compression. Just because you can't hear or notice issues with the audio doesn't mean that the artifacts introduced don't exist or that others can't tell a difference. Perhaps a better analogy would be a more modern lossy format such as AVIF or WEBP when compared to PNG. It's making the statement that you shouldn't always resort to lossy even if its compression appears indistinguishable to the naked eye, because better formats exist and became the standard for benchmark. Why settle with imperfections?
Likewise, you could argue why you decided to use H.264 when you are so set on using newer codecs for space saving imperceivable differences. With high enough bitrate and encoding settings, HEVC could match or beat AVC. I can only think of wanting consistency with other seasons (ASC) or needing to support weaker decade old devices. Or you just didn't want to spend the extra time encoding. Then again, ASC uses FLAC and isn't as video bloated so...
> would you still make the same arguments if they looked like this
@pog42 Are you referring to the high frequency noise in your AAC vs AAC comparison? I will always prefer lossless because lossy will always have measurable compression effects. Not to mention someone could fuck up the audio, making it significantly worse, which no one bothers to check when doing encode comparisons.
I don't care for frequency data above ~18khz personally since that's about where my ears stop. People younger than me or with better hearing can enjoy those extreme pitched whines higher up. What I more mind is the smudging of audio from imperfect transcoding. Take this distortion example from [avisoft](https://www.avisoft.com/compression/) when comparing untouched WAV to MP3.
While opus isn't as egregious of a lossy format with its masking curves and filtering ([since that's the entire point of its existence](https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6716#section-4.3.3)), it still introduces artifacts and slight changes compared to the source audio. It doesn't make sense on a release trying to be the best for archiving, especially with size considerations already thrown out the window.
FLAC-24 is ideal. FLAC-16 is fine. OPUS/AAC hurts my elitism /s.
> You are not going to hear a difference
@absinth Most people aren't going to see a difference in encodes either.
At these levels of nitpicking I feel like we may as well be talking about the effects of bitrot on audio instead lol. Discerning people can spot the differences between encodes but in a blind (deaf?) test, practically nobody is going to be able to tell opus and flac apart. If anyone wants to add or preserve the flac audio themselves though, all the necessary tools are readily available so I'm not really sure what the big deal is either way
go touch fucking grass. There is simply no audible difference from non starved opus to lossless. Shit like this is honestly why noone should release on nyaa anymore. Only retards running around in the comments
@Aergia We all understand what @unko means. Just another way of saying bloated encode with lossy audio.
@Vodes If elitists disappear from Nyaa, new blood will eventually take their place. Private trackers are great seed-wise, but their reach is small compared to Nyaa. It's like streaming on Netflix and then switching to STARZ exclusively.
People like what they like. The lossy souls have no problem voicing their opinions. It's hypocritical to throw a tantrum when opposing opinions surface.
> @pog42 Are you referring to the high frequency noise in your AAC vs AAC comparison? I will always prefer lossless because lossy will always have measurable compression effects.
@Mabby it's not an AAC vs AAC comparison, the one titled "Sekai Saikou no Ansatsusha, Isekai Kizoku ni Tensei suru S01E01 2021 1080p Bluray Hybrid-REMUX AVC AAC 2.0 Dual Audio -ZR-" is authentic bloated pure PCM audio. The AAC there just refers to the dub. But perhaps this misunderstanding says something about the transparency of lossy audio.
How did you plan to identify lossy audio if you're unable to distinguish, like everyone else, AAC and PCM spectrograms here, much less in an ABX test. The arguments about the bloated encode and the video/audio size ratio are a bit misleading because the better analogy is lossless video. The audio/video compression ratios there are closer than you'd think.
> Shit like this is honestly why noone should release on nyaa anymore. Only retards running around in the comments
@Vodes Like how your releases aren't fully QC'ed and need patches or v2s?
> it’s not an AAC vs AAC comparison
@pog42 My apologies. Nowhere did it specify which stream was analyzed so I made an assumption based on the file name. In that case, I would agree the AAC is more transparent but you could be just as transparent with FLAC while being bit perfect as well. That PCM audio could be from a bad rip or BD mastering too. In any case, no one said remuxes are flawless. The encoding scene exists because you can improve upon the BD while saving space. Generally re-encoding audio to lossy formats doesn't improve upon the audio - you just do it for space saving reasons.
> How did you plan to identify lossy audio if you’re unable to distinguish, like everyone else, AAC and PCM spectrograms here, much less in an ABX test.
I wish this copium deflection meme would disappear. Don't do an ABX, it's used as an excuse. Do the ABX, it's claimed fake or an outlier coincidence if against OPUS and you'll still end up using OPUS anyways because who cares about one person's ABX. If you have a preference to use OPUS, so be it. But OPUS is subjectively transparent. It's mathematically not possible for lossy codecs to be objectively transparent and a perfect transcode. Proper ABX testing requires a silent environment, passing equipment, and a trained ear. You need to know exactly what to listen for and are more likely to only hear differences in complex sounds.
Opus is the "good enough" codec for the vast majority of people. It's just not without its own set of flaws.
@Mabby
> Proper ABX testing requires a silent environment, passing equipment, and a trained ear.
Is there anyone who's gonna watch anime in this type of environment? No, there isn't. That's why those "flaws" are gonna be imperceivable for not just the "vast majority of people," but literally everyone who will watch this release. The audio isn't meant to be analyzed in a lab, it's just to go along with your anime.
> Is there anyone who’s gonna watch anime in this type of environment? No, there isn’t.
Well that's just moving the goalposts then. "If you aren't in x environment, you shouldn't care about y being better because you wouldn't tell the difference anyways." Agree to disagree I guess. I at least would like my archive collection to strive for perfection.
Thanks for the fun conversation all, got a cute image out of it too. See you in the next comment chain.
Still coping with this FLACebo trash? You are pointlessly squabbling about indistinguishable differences between loss and lossy audio codecs when the master for anime stuff is fucking shit. IT DOES NOT MATTER, YOU ARE NOT LISTENING TO FUCKING OPERAS.
Also, funny how you argue people would disregard an outliner ABX test when still no idiot has posted one here, to begin with. Suck it, Opus is superior in every conceivable way, the reason the video is "bloated" is that bitrate ACTUALLY amounts to something, especially during action scenes. That tradeoff is why you have 1 gb encodes or 3 gb ones, and that's where I am fine with people arguing for higher sizes (even though I don't necessarily agree with them).
>In that case, I would agree the AAC is more transparent but you could be just as transparent with FLAC while being bit perfect as well.
When you already don't care about frequency data above ~18khz, the increased transparency above 20khz is hardly an improvement worth considering. As for being bit perfect, a similar argument could be made for 24-bit but I really don't want to go there.
>That PCM audio could be from a bad rip or BD mastering too. In any case, no one said remuxes are flawless.
Indeed, I'm not implying that remuxes are flawless, or in this case, flawed. If you think something is significantly wrong with either the AAC or the PCM for this one, do point it out.
>space saving
AAC 320k is only a 2x compression from the average 16-bit flac bitrate of ~600-700k on an anime episode, yet the impression is that one has done something unspeakable to the audio. Might I point out again that this compression is less than the average ~6.5GB remux to ~1.5GB encode, let alone lossless video. I would argue that much more data is lost in video compression, data that is also perceivable were you to look at screenshots or do something resembling an ABX by repeatedly watching a short extract from two samples.
If size considerations were truly thrown out the window, you'd have lossless encodes after filtering. That would indeed be as efficient a use of space as lossless audio.
The same people who advocate for flac have a meltdown when someone dares to use low crf values. This comment section has mentioned the word "bloat" 12 times with reference to the encode without realizing that the encode is comparatively less bloated than the audio. These arguments are yet again based on some arbitrary idea about absolute sizes that "feel" wrong compared to what you're used to.
> But OPUS is subjectively transparent. It’s mathematically not possible for lossy codecs to be objectively transparent and a perfect transcode.
The same things can be said for video, the only difference being the scale of sizes.
>I wish this copium deflection meme would disappear. Don’t do an ABX, it’s used as an excuse. Do the ABX, it’s claimed fake or an outlier coincidence if against OPUS and you’ll still end up using OPUS anyways because who cares about one person’s ABX.
The ABX is more to convince audiophiles about the perceptual transparency, which you've already admitted. Expecting even a single person in this comment section to actually pass one would be surprising. Yet, I've never claimed that it's an impossibility, though the idea is not too far fetched considering that most of the complex sounds in question are anime dialogue.
Flac is a valid preference, be it for the archival, the audiophilic enjoyment or even for the meme. But equating opus to a mini encode and trashing a high quality release for it without any concrete reasons is hardly fair, this is not directed at you, but at others in the comment section, which is mostly kulot.
sorry i'm late but, do you guys not realize your own hypocrisy here? mabby's saying that without the right equipment you can't tell the difference between flac and opus. can't the same argument be made for video? for many of the "best video" releases on seadex, there is a high quality smaller encode available (not talking about minis) that would be hard to distinguish on the average consumer PC monitor or TV. you guys have trained your eyes to spot these differences in video, mabby has trained their ears to spot the differences in audio. it's the exact same thing. there is a very clear double standard. if you care about presenting the highest quality releases, you should stick with flac.
@ap1234
> there is a high quality smaller encode
Well, the term "high quality" is definitely subjective here because in most of the comparisons there are noticeable differences. These are distinguishable even on average consumer grade equipment. It's not hard to even notice artifacts from a shitty phone screen even if you just zoom in a little bit to see properly. It's also not about "training your eyes," it's just about knowing what the artifacts are actually called so that you can call them out properly. In terms of audio, it's just simply a question of whether you can notice the smallest difference or not to discern the transparency.
> mabby has trained their ears to spot the differences in audio. it’s the exact same thing.
Keep in mind that Mabby never stated that he himself can actually hear a difference. He just said that in order to do proper testing you would need to be in certain environment and with trained ears, but that still doesn't guarantee that you will hear a difference. Video is very different here because you can notice artifacts during a regular viewing session and yes, even on regular equipment.
TLDR: video quality degradation is noticeable during playback, whereas the supposed "audio quality degradation" isn't. Therefore, it should still be considered as a release of the highest perceivable quality.
AAC is better than OPUS, but better suited to 720p encodes. Thanks for including FLAC separately at least. Even though it's dithered for some reason, meaning you lose some data.
@HachiRokuNiSanKyu Dithering makes a noticeable size difference when there is at least one 5.1 track for a series (which is the case here). Very useful in that context. If it’s just 2.0 tracks, the space saved isn’t substantial enough for me to care, one way or the other.
I swear, it was just 2 days ago that OPUS was considered gross and disgusting. Now every other upload has opus sluts thirsting in the comments.
>Discerning people can spot the differences between encodes but in a blind (deaf?) test, practically nobody is going to be able to tell opus and flac apart.
Not to mention, most people aren't sitting in an anechoic chamber or in front of a perfectly color calibrated monitor.
>Not to mention someone could fuck up the audio, making it significantly worse, which no one bothers to check when doing encode comparisons.
Well, I try to anyway.
---
And since we have all the audio nerds In the chat again, [I'd still like someone to debunk this "theory" because I'm sure theres more that goes into it, but i'm no audiophile](https://nyaa.iss.one/view/1468809#com-18)
@Simplistic
dithered 16b has 120db dynamic range, which is more than any anime has. equiv of range from mosquito in your room to jackhammer a foot away from you. no anime ever had or ever will have more dynamic range than that... and humans can also not hear more dynamic range than that at any given time without significant resting time inbetween, at the frequencies where we have the highest theoretical dynamic range perception. anyone using 24bit for anything but archival with intent of later manipulation (mixing etc) is just telling you they have no idea about anything they are tlaking about. if you wanna read someone who actually has a clue about anything: https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html nobody on nyaa is worth listening to
Oh, I know, 16b+ is bullshit. I'm more of asking if releasing something with 13 bit FLAC might be destroying something I'm not aware of and or causing playback issues (though it's pretty cope tier to do that, but maybe not out of the question). [(I'm referring to this in case you missed it)](https://imgur.com/a/vuSQlpk)
EDIT: seems dynamic range is probably the only thing that would be affected? Or, the noise I noticed once I got down to 12 bits that might be present in the 13-15bit versions that I just couldn't hear. But at the same time, wouldn't that be visible in the spectrogram?
Comments - 69
DeathStroke
xOmnium
DeathStroke
StazCherryBlood
Vodes
Mabby
Arid0914
Glordit
Interruptor
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Kulot99
The0x539
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mcbaws21
halofan
Gnome
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Kulot99
Interruptor
Mabby
Vodes
pog42
Kulot99
halofan
Kulot99
absinth
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Kulot99
absinth
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Mabby
Mabby
Arcus_Deer
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Vodes
Kulot99
Vodes
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Kulot99
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Mabby
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Interruptor
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Simplistic
HachiRokuNiSanKyu
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